Posts Tagged ‘St. Louis University’

Where was 1909 Carlisle-St. Louis U. game played?

April 12, 2013

Wednesday, I received a question about the location of the Carlisle-St. Louis University game played on November 25, 1909. Was it played in St. Louis or in Cincinnati was the question. A quick scan of Steckbeck’s Fabulous Redmen found it listed as having been played in Cincinnati. From experience, I have learned not to accept Steckbeck as gospel. He’s usually right, but not always. So, I checked with the Spalding’s Guides to see if they could shed any light on the issue. The 1909 Spalding’s Guide listed the game as being scheduled to be played in St. Louis. The 1910 Guide just gave the score.

Next, I searched newspapers for the day before the game, the day of the game, and the day after the game. Every mention of the game that included a location, far from all of them, placed the game in St. Louis. Many newspapers just gave the score or a brief summary. The November 24 Wilkes-Barre Times-Leader article began, “Seventeen redskins left the Carlisle Indian School last evening for the Thanksgiving game at St. Louis….” The November 26 New Orleans Times-Picayune’s coverage of the game was datelined St. Louis as did the Philadelphia Inquirer’s special.

The September 10, 1909 issue, Volume VI, Number 1 of The Carlisle Arrow listed the location of the game with St. Louis to be played in November in St. Louis. The November 26 edition included a sentence about their victory the previous day in St. Louis. The December 3, 1909 The Carlisle Arrow reprinted an article from the December 26, 1909 St. Louis Globe-Democrat that discusses the game played locally (to them) at National League park (home of the St, Louis Cardinals).

All references I found to that game, other than Steckbeck, place the game as being played in St. Louis at a venue larger than the hosting university’s home field. Perhaps he got confused with the 1906 or 1897 seasons when the Indians did play late season games in Cincinnati. He misplaced another game in Cincinnati: the 1905 game with Massillon Athletic Club which was actually played in Cleveland. Why that particular game was played where it was played is a story unto itself.

1909-11-26 Carlisle Arrow St Louis game

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1904 Olympic Football Champions

February 23, 2012

It is well known that Carlisle Indian School shellacked Haskell Institute at the 1904 St. Louis World’s Fair on the Saturday after Thanksgiving. What isn’t widely known is that the St. Louis University team was deemed the Olympic Champions that year by virtue of playing, and winning, all their home games at the fair site which doubled as the location of the 1904 Olympics. The 1905 Spalding’s Guide includes a photo of the team titled “St. Louis University, Olympic World’s Champions.” While the pre-Billiken St. Louis U. footballers went undefeated, untied, and unscored upon through their eleven-game schedule, they were probably not even the second or third best team to play in front of an Olympic audience that year. The only major schools played were Kentucky, Arkansas and Missouri.

The Haskell Institute Fighting Indians were also undefeated in regular season play that year but gave up six points each to Nebraska and Kansas. They had also beaten Texas and Missouri. At that time, comparative scores were considered but Haskell and St. Louis had only one common opponent: Missouri. St. Louis shut them out 17-0 where Haskell humiliated them 38-0. Additionally, Haskell played a much tougher schedule, mostly on the road. Martin A. Delaney, Coach of St. Louis University’s football team, wrote about the World’s Fair/Olympics impact on football in the region:

During the season of 1904 football in the Southwest received a stimulus which did more to develop the game in this section than ten years of independent effort on the part of the various teams could possibly have done. This stimulus was given by the Physical Culture Department of the Louisiana Purchase Exposition. The department took charge of the schedules of St. Louis’ principal teams—those of Washington and St. Louis Universities—furnished them grounds, and brought the best teams in the section to meet them. As a consequence, these teams and the teams who played them had a season of unexampled success and development.

 

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Pacific Northwest Trip Canceled

January 26, 2010

The October 24, 1908 edition of The Anaconda Standard reported, in an article titled “Carlisle Cancels Northwestern Trip,” on a wire sent from Portland, Ore. on October 20. The wire began, “The games between the Carlisle Indians and W. S. C. and Multnomah A. C. are off, a letter from the Indians to Manager Martin Pratt of Multnomah yesterday announcing that the proposed expedition had been canceled. The news was badly received at Multnomah, where the clubmen were counting on the Carlisle game as the big attraction of the year from an attendance standpoint.”

W. S. C. stands for Washington State College, which is known today as Washington State University. A strong tie with Carlisle Indian School and the Warner System was established in 1915 when Lone Star Dietz left Carlisle to turn around W. S. C.’s football team and lead them to an undefeated season and a victory on New Year’s Day in Pasadena to establish the Rose Bowl tradition. Dietz was followed as head football coach first by Gus Welch and later by Albert Exendine. Multnomah Athletic Club was founded in 1891 and still operates in Portland, Oregon. At that time, they fielded one of the better football teams on the West Coast.

Carlisle Indian School publications made no mention of this. In fact, the November 6 issue of The Carlisle Arrow made no mention of any games, real or imagined, after the Thanksgiving Day game with St. Louis University. The November 20 issue included this little item:

Our Varsity team will leave for the west on Wednesday, with our coach and the substitutes, to play with Minnesota University, St. Louis University, Nebraska University, and Denver University.

No mention was ever made of a possible extension of the trip to the Pacific Northwest. The Indians lost to Minnesota, 11-6, and athletic relations between the schools were severed for reasons left unstated. The Indians then won the remaining 3 games on their long schedule to finish the 1908 season 10-2-1. The other loss was a 17-0 defeat by Harvard. The other blemish on their record was a 6-6 tie with Penn.