Posts Tagged ‘Jim Thorpe’

Did Joe Guyon Set Up Knute Rockne for Jim Thorpe?

September 26, 2025

In a February 1966 interview by The Canton Repository writer Charlie Powell, Joe Guyon shared his version of the often-told story of Knute Rockne’s crashing collision with Jim Thorpe in the November 1915 Canton-Massillon game. The difference in this telling of the tale is that Joe injected himself as “a blocking back” into the story:

“Thorpe returned to the huddle after Rockne stopped him for the second time at the line of scrimmage and turned to his would-be blocker [Guyon] and said, ‘You gotta push him inside. We run the play again, but you block like you have.’

“The blocker took the advice, goofing up purposely, and Rockne came barreling in to meet Thorpe. This time, though, Thorpe was ready and Rockne was sent flying.”

The rest of the telling followed familiar lines.

How could sportswriters and football historians have missed Joe Guyon’s presence in this game? His name didn’t appear in newspaper reports but that isn’t unexpected because players often appeared under assumed names. Fisher, for one example, was listed in the Canton line-up at right halfback but no one actually named Fisher was on the field. The other three in the backfield, Skeet Lambert, Jim Thorpe, and Carp Julian, were real people. Could Guyon have been playing as Fisher? Right halfback, wingback in the single and double wing formations Guyon and Thorpe ran at Carlisle Indian School under the tutelage of Pop Warner, was responsible for blocking the defensive end on an end sweep play. If Joe Guyon was playing as Fisher, this story could be true. But was Guyon able to play in the game?

In 1915, Joe Guyon was attending Keewatin Academy in Wisconsin and starred on its football team. That factor alone might have made his attendance impossible. Looking a little deeper, Keewatin played DePaul University in Chicago on Thanksgiving Day. After the game, Guyon would likely have had the rest of the week off school and could have made his way to Canton by Saturday to practice for the Sunday game with Massillon.

Jack Cusack was no help in determining if Guyon played. His recollection was that most players, other than Thorpe, played under assumed names. Profootballarchives.com includes a roster for the 1915 Canton Bulldogs. As expected, Fisher wasn’t listed but Don Peters a 220-pound fullback from Carlisle Indian School was. However, Carlisle Indian School files include nothing about Don/Donald Peters. It might have been Joe Guyon but Pete Calac played fullback and played for Canton after leaving Carlisle at the end of the 1916 football season. Carlisle’s 1915 season ended on Thanksgiving Day, leaving him time to go to Canton, Ohio if he could slip away.

Researchers with The Professional Football Researchers Association disagreed in their article, “Thorpe Arrives: 1915”: “Most Cantonites quickly discovered that ‘Fisher’ was really Earle ‘Greasy’ Neale, the head coach at West Virginia Wesleyan.” Unfortunately, the authors of that 15-year-old article have died so we can’t ask them any questions. We may never know for certain who set up Rockne for Thorpe to annihilate.

Parlaying a Life Off the Reservation

February 5, 2025

While researching information for an article about Keewatin Academy, I came across a July 2010 blog posting by the late, great Bob Lemke. In it he stated:

“Like Thorpe, Guyon was a two-sport star who parlayed awesome athletic abilities into a life away from the White Earth Indian reservation near Brainerd, Minn.”

Joe Guyon was an incredible teammate of Jim Thorpe, both at Carlisle Indian School and in the pros. In between, he attended Keewatin Academy to prepare himself academically for college and to play on the Georgia Tech “Golden Tornado” football team. Few others have played on two legendary teams but that isn’t the reason Lemke’s statement jumped out at me. Parlayedinto a life away from thereservation is what caught my eye.

Carlisle Indian School is being criticized relentlessly these days and critics often conflate it with other schools, even some in Canada. Carlisle was unique; it reflected  founder Richard Henry Pratt’s philosophy and prepared students to farm their allotments on the reservation, if staying on the reservation was their desire, and for the others to be able to prosper off the reservation.

To my knowledge, no one has studied the difference in results for Carlisle students who didn’t permanently return to the reservation with those who parlayed their Carlisle educations into lives away from the reservation. Such a study would be difficult to make but could be enlightening.

Something simpler to look at would be deaths. Something that is ongoing at Carlisle Barracks, formerly the home of Carlisle Indian School, is the return of the remains of deceased students to the reservations from which the students came. It is sad so many children died. It is also sad so many children in the general population died during the period of time Carlisle operated (1879-1918). As an example, a prosperous local family, Richard Reynolds Craighead and his wife Mary, had nine children but only three survived early childhood. Children dying was a sad fact of life at the time. Another example of people able to obtain the best medical care available were the parents of two Keewatin Academy students, renowned structural engineer Joachim Giaver and his wife Louise, who lost three of their eight children in their infancy.

It might be that fewer children died at Carlisle than did on the reservations because Pratt provided better healthcare for the students than the government did for reservation residents. Studies have been conducted of deaths at the school. Now would be a good time to conduct a more comprehensive study. A control group already exists: the young people who stayed on the reservation and didn’t go to Carlisle or any other off-reservation boarding school. The results could be enlightening.

Bob & Flo Finally Get Their Due

November 3, 2024

Robert “Bob” Wheeler and his wife, Florence “Flo” Ridlon received the AAU Gussie Crawford Lifetime Achievement Award for their several-decades-long work in championing Jim Thorpe and getting his Olympic medals and records reinstated by the International Olympic Committee (IOC).

“The award is intended to recognize those whose efforts, both on and off the playing field, have paved the way for great change in amateur sports. First awarded in 2016, this is the seventh time the AAU Crawford Award has been given out.”

Bob is best known for his definitive biography Jim Thorpe. Dr. Ridlon received her Ph.D. in sociology from Syracuse University and has written two published works: A Black Physician’s Struggle for Civil Rights: Edward C. Mazique and A Fallen Angel: The Status Insularity of the Female Alcoholic.

It was Flo’s research in the Library of Congress that found the written copy of the 1912 Olympic Rules that had fallen behind other books on the shelf. Jim’s disqualification was disqualified by those rules, which set the challenge date as no longer than a month after the Olympics were played. Thorpe’s challenge was placed months later, making it invalid according to the rules.

Bob and Flo have worked decades in getting Thorpe’s medals and records returned and reinstated, making recognition of their work long overdue.

I heard rumors of the Jim Thorpe Memorial at Jim Thorpe, PA being refreshed. Let’s hope they’re true.
 

Is Caitlin Clark the Next Jim Thorpe or Red Grange?

June 5, 2024

Is Caitlin Clark the next Jim Thorpe or Red Grange? I’m not speaking from an athletic sense but from an economic sense. The WNBA is in a similar situation as was professional football in 1915—except they have a sugar daddy. The WNBA operates as a loss and the NBA’s largess keeps them solvent. This subsidy makes possible paying WNBA players salaries comparable to those of their college classmates who graduate with useful degrees.

In 1915 professional football wasn’t even professional. It was semi-pro. If the team turned a profit, it was divided among the players. If there was no profit, they got nothing. Players supported themselves working regular jobs, some of which were very physical. The games were played on Sunday, not because high school games were played on Friday and colleges played on Saturday. They were played on Sunday because that was the only day most players had off from the jobs that supported themselves and their families. The 40-hour work week wasn’t instituted until 1940. Before that, most worked six days a week.

When Jack Cusack, the Canton Bulldogs semi-pro team manager, offered Jim Thorpe $250 a game to play for his team, the other managers thought he would run his team into bankruptcy. Even larger sums had been paid to ringers for single games, but no player had been paid anything to rival this amount for each and every game. The result was that attendance more than doubled at Canton’s games, making both Canton and its opponents more solvent. Keep in mind that Thorpe’s last college game was played in 1912, the same year Big Jim won gold medals in both the decathlon and pentathlon at the Stockholm Olympic games. After that, he played Major League Baseball for the New York Giants and, after the 1915 season, coached the Indiana University backfield.

The next major step in solidifying professional football as a going concern occurred a decade later at the end of the college season when Illinois star Red Grange left college to turn pro for the Chicago Bears. “The Galloping Ghost”, “The Wheaton Iceman,” or “Number 77” had gained mythical status in 1924 when he scored four touchdowns in twelve minutes against mighty Michigan. The NFL had been formed five years earlier with Jim Thorpe as its nominal commissioner. The league was far from solvent up to that time. Teams came and went, including most of the founders. Things changed when Charles C. “Cash and Carry” Pyle signed Grange to a $100,000 contract.

The question now is Will Caithlin Clark elevate the WNBA as Thorpe and Grange raised pro football?

Return of the Conquering Heroes

September 30, 2022

Jim Thorpe’s return to Carlisle after the 1912 Olympics was incorrectly described in at least one newspaper of the day and that description has found its way into current books on Jim Thorpe. Fortunately, The Star-Independent of Harrisburg, PA captured the event in minute detail in its August 16, 1912 edition. However, the article was too detailed to be included in this short piece. There is only room to summarize it here.

A crowd estimated to be between six and seven thousand people congregated at the Cumberland Valley Railroad (CVRR) station across from the James Wilson Hotel a block from the square in Carlisle for Thorpe’s expected arrival at 12:30 p.m.. The crowd-shy hero avoided this multitude by getting off the train at Gettysburg Junction, where the South Mountain Railroad connected with the CVRR, about a mile east of the square. Automobiles waiting there secreted Thorpe, Lewis Tewanima, and Pop Warner to Carlisle Indian School, where they were “greeted informally by students and their closest friends.”

From the Indian school the trio progressed to the parade which was split into three divisions, each of which was formed separately. The honorees were part of the first division which assembled along North Hanover Street, with its head at High Street (colloquially Main Street). Scheduled to start at 2:00 p.m., the parade, led by the first division, progressed east on High Street to Bedford Street, then followed a circuitous route along portions of each of the major streets in the center of town, eventually arriving at Biddle Field on the Dickinson College campus. There the official festivities started. After much speechifying, various events took place in town and on the Indian school campus (Carlisle Barracks). Fireworks were scheduled for 8:30 p.m. (EST probably), which were followed by an invitation-only reception and dance in the school’s gymnasium (present day Thorpe Hall) to close the day’s festivities.

Celebrity visitors

March 21, 2008

Carlisle had two celebrity visitors yesterday. Robert W. Wheeler and his wife, Florence Ridlon, dropped in at Wardecker’s Mens Wear to buy Bob a suit. Some might think it odd for a person who lives in Sandy Shores, Texas to drive to Carlisle on such an errand. However, it was a return trip for Bob, although close to 40 years in the making. What began as a master’s degree thesis in the late 1960s became a seven-year odyssey to research the life of America’s greatest athlete, Jim Thorpe. Bob’s research was not supported by a foundation grant and, as a graduate student at Syracuse University, he had few personal financial resources and found it necessary to travel across the country by hitchhiking. After he arrived at “The Capital,” as the haberdashery was known when Thorpe patronized it, “Muck” Wardecker dispatched his son, Freddie, the current owner, to chauffeur Bob around the area to interview Thorpe’s old friends. This time Bob and Florence drove themselves to Carlisle.

Much has happened in the intervening decades. For starters, Bob’s master’s thesis became the book, Jim Thorpe: world’s greatest athlete. However, getting college credit for writing the book was not automatic. That is a story best left to Bob to tell. After publication, the book got rave reviews. Dick Schaap compared Wheeler to James Boswell, the author of what has been considered the best biography ever written for any person. Bob got married but his interest in Thorpe did not wane. In fact, his bride, Florence Ridlon, became involved with the effort. One day in a musty archive, Florence found something that would have a major impact on the sports world.

She found the rules for the 1912 Olympics. In those rules she saw that challenges had to be filed within 30 days of the Olympics. The challenge that caused Thorpe to be stripped of his medals was filed almost six months after the Olympics and should not have been allowed. Getting Thorpe’s medals restored was not a simple matter and that story is best left for Bob and Florence to tell, also. Suffice to say that we will always be indebted to them for what they accomplished – and it wasn’t easy.

After having a son in 1989, Bob decided to quit his glamorous job with ABC Sports and work with Florence in their public relations business based out of Texas so that he could be involved in the rearing of his child. Their son is now a tennis star at MIT and they are on the road to watch him play some matches in the northeast.

Bob is making an audiobook with Frank Gifford narrating. Interviews with people such as President Eisenhower will be included as what I would call making of material. I can’t wait for that to come out.

Also visiting with Bob and Florence was Carlisle’s own Dick Darr, who played at Syracuse alongside Florence’s brother, Jim Ridlon. Perhaps we can get an interview with Dick some day to discuss his competition for the tailback position with an upstart named Jim Brown.

It is hoped that Bob and Florence will honor Carlisle with a talk sometime in the future now that they have reason to pass this way again.