Comment Helps Solve Frank Jude-Ed Rogers Problem

Almost a year ago, I posted a message that asked if Frank Jude and Ed Rogers were brothers as the Carlisle Indian School newspaper, The Arrow, had stated. Now, I have the answer to that question thanks to Larry Rutenbeck. Larry posted a comment late last week that provides the necessary information. Larry wrote:

Mary Sahgoshkodaywayq Williams Racine had 12 children fathered by 3 different men, William Rogers (3), William Jude (2), and George Snetsinger (7). Ed Rogers was the oldest (born in 1876) and Louise Rogers was the third child (born in 1882). Frank Jude was the 4th child (born in 1885) and was the oldest of the two Jude children.

In addition to answering a very basic question, Larry’s comment causes several others to come to mind:

  1. Was Mary married to these men?
  2. Were her marriages simultaneous or sequential?
  3. Did they end in death or divorce or did they continue during a subsequent marriage?

Louise Rogers’ enrollment card implies that her father was still alive in 1897 when she enrolled because he is listed in her home address field.

That Frank Jude played on the 1904 team that his older half-brother coached may have raised some issues among the players. Was Frank getting opportunities that others were not getting due to this relationship? Was more expected from Frank by the coaching staff for this same reason?

Frank Jude’s abilities as a baseball player are well known due to his having played for the Cincinnati Reds in 1906. Less well known is that he scored the winning touchdown in the Indians’ great victory over Army in 1905. Larry’s assistance will make researching Frank Jude’s life easier. That is a benefit I receive from this blog.

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13 Responses to “Comment Helps Solve Frank Jude-Ed Rogers Problem”

  1. larry rutenbeck Says:

    Tom – glad I could help. I have researched native athletes since 1980 and have a very extensive amount of material. PS – could you correct the spelling of my last name in the posting on frank Jude. Thanks

  2. David Rogers Says:

    I can perhaps add a bit of information to the subject of Mary Racine’s first family. My grandfather and Willaim Andrew Rogers were brothers and I have collected some information on the Rogers’ families. William Andrew Rogers was born in August, 1848, he was the third child of Nathan & Eliza Ann [Hemphill] Rogers of Northampton Parish, Carleton County, New Brunswick, Canada. Both of William Andrew Rogers parents were born in Ireland, in the area of County Tyrone. He emigrated to Minnesota as a labourer, lumberman, and was first involved about 1868/69 in “logging and driving” on the Rum River. About 1871/72 when the Aitkin area opened up he moved north to Aitkin County. In the late 1870s and early 1880s he was a partner in a lumbering business with Mark Libby. Joseph Libby, Mark’s father is identified as one of the first to have lumbered in the Sandy Lake area. In the census of 1880 both William A. Rogers and mark Libby are listed as heads of households at Sandy Lake. Mark at that time had six children, the oldest being nine years of age. One of Mark’s children, Joseph some years later was a student at Carlisle School and graduated there in 1907 as a business student. He was also well known as a football and baseball player. William Rogers, in 1880, had two children, the oldest born April 14, 1876, was Edward Lowell Rogers. A second son, Charles, was born there c 1878/79, and a daughter, Louise was born in the same community in 1881/82. Edward and Charles were sent by their father to attend school in Minneapolis [about 1883/84 and boarded there with the Lincoln family. When family circumstances changed, Mrs. Lincoln could only keep one boy and selected Charles, while Ed. returned home. The Minneapolis Tribune reported on June 17, 1939 that: “He (Edward) talked nothing but Indian until he was 7 or 8 years old and was brought to Minneapolis by his father to be educated in the Public School here. He was enrolled at the old Washington School where he went through the 8th grade…” When he returned to work with his father in T. B. Walker’s logging camp after the seventh grade, Rogers spoke only English. He resumed his schooling in 1894 at Carlisle. “MARRIED: At the residence of the bride, St. Paul, Minnesota, by Rev. M. N. Gilbert, Rector of Christ Church, December 24th (1882), William A. Rogers of Aitkin, Minnesota and Miss Kate Sperl, of St. Paul.” Kate was 18 years of age when she married William A. Rogers. She came to Aitkin to work in a hotel where they met. She was born in Austria and came to America when she was about four years old. Kate and W. A. were the parents of eight children. W. A. was a well known lumberman in Aitkin and neighbouring counties throughout his life with his fortunes varying with the market conditions and price of logs.
    It is probable in my opinion that W. A. Rogers association with Mary Racine ended sometime before his marriage late in 1882. Information in the Aitkin Age and other newspapers recall that W. A. & his family kept in contact with his first three children. Edward and Louise both were sent or encouraged to attend the Carlisle School. For example Ed and Charlie visited their father in Aigkin and boarded with their family when playing basball in Aitkin. Louise also visited her half sisters in Aitkin on several occasions. W. A. is also reported to have attended at least one of the football games played by the Carlisle team in Minneapolis. W. A. Rogers died in Duluth, Minnesota on January 4, 1912 where he is reported to have fallen down an elevator shaft. He obituary included all members of his two families and their locations. At that time Charlie lived in Seattle. No further information has been found about him to my knowledge. The only information I have found relating to Mary Racine appears in the 1920 Census of Aitkin County, Turner Township which includes some of the Sandy Lake area. Mary Ouetsinger, Head, Indian, 61 Widow, can’t read or write, birthplace Minnesota. Also in this family are Grace K, Daughter, age 23, Mabel H. daughter, age 20, and Frank Jude, son, 35. All the children can read and write and were born in Minnesota. This family seems to match some of the members of Mary Racine’s 3rd family. Her last name is somewhat different than Snetsinger, as reported in several blogs. This may be a mistake based on the census takers spelling efforts. I hope that some of this is of interest.

    • tombenjey Says:

      Thank you for clarifying this, David. I’ll see if I can find William A. Rogers’ obituary. The Ou–>Sn in Mary’s last name could have been a result of poor penmanship. Things I write longhand are often hard to read and end up being misread as a result.

      Tom

    • Anne Jones Taylor Says:

      Hi David Roger my now to be 1/2 cousin….. Ed Rogers is/ was my Great grand father ,,,, our family is still very well know in Edina Mn & cass co Mn / Walker Mn my Great grandfather was a lawyer & judge in Mn. My Mother Patsy says that William divorced Mary because she refused to leave the Resavation Mary was very intelligent & gifted woman .Ed Rogers gave Jim Thorp his name & was part of University of Mn & University of Michigan little brown jug game still tradition . Mary was married 3x none at the same time,,,,,, I just found out about 12 children recently ,,,,, wow. She must of been a amazing woman ,,,,,please get back to me with ? My mom is with me this week my & papas Birthday April 10-14 you are our present ,,,, her older sister Betty just passed away in Walker Mn

  3. David Rogers Says:

    If you are interested I can send you a typed copy of Wm. A. Rogers obituary or type it in here. David.

    • tombenjey Says:

      Thank you for your kind offer, David, but it won’t be necessary. A few days ago, while researching another person, I was introduced to GenealogyBank.com, a site I’d not heard of previously. After signing up for it yesterday, I searched for William A. Rogers and found the articles you mentioned. By informing me of the existence of these articles, you pushed me to subscribe to this site. I have also found items of interest that I didn’t previously know existed for other people.

      Thank you for helping me move forward on a couple of fronts.

      Tom Benjey 717-258-9733 voice 717-243-0074 fax blog: http://www.TomBenjey.com

      • David Rogers Says:

        Thank you for your e-mail. I have collected quite a bit of information on my Aitkin Rogers relatives and if I can be of help please let me know. During that last couple of days I have done some more searching on the Internet and have come up with some information that may be of interest [if you don’t have it already]. The Minnesota Death & Burials – 1835 – 1990 that can be reached through familysearch.com/ has information on the death of Mary Snetsinger. She died on 01 February, 1934 in Libby Township, Aitkin County, MN, age 74. She was born, according to the 1900 census, in April, 1860. In 1900, she was the mother of 10 children, all of whom were living. [The death index, above, has the demise of her son, George, b 27 November, 1902 and who died on 9 August, 1908.] Mary, married George Snetsinger, about 1892, according to the 1900 census, however, a daughter Lizzie, was born c 1890. He emigrated from Canada to the US in 1869, according to the 1910 census. He was listed as 61 years of age in the 1910 census and was 45 years of age in the 1900 census. Mary’s father was listed as William Racine; her mother was Songwanaybequ… and in the 1900 census her mother in law, Nishe Williams, age 64, was living with Mary & her family, presumably William Racine had died before that date. Mary Snetsinger is buried in the Carr Annex, across the road from the Union Woodland Cemetery which is about one-half mile south of the city of McGregor on Country Road 8. Mary’s family, census of 1900 includes: Frank Snetsinger, age 15, Maggie, 13; Lizzie 10, May 8; Fred 6, Grace 4; and Mabel 1. All these children are listed with the last name of Snetsinger. [I wonder, based on the births of the first two, if their original name was Jude. Frank Jude’s age, in the census of 1920, was 35, i.e. born 1885. This matches the year of birth of Frank Snetsinger, in the census of 1900. Maggie, age 13, might possibly be the second child fathered by William Jude. George Snetsinger, who died age 6, above, appears to be the 11th child of Mary. I don’t know if there are other children, although by 1902 Mary was about 42 years of age and perhaps near the end of her child bearing years. Maybe. On a different subject, Louise Rogers, age 17, and Edward Rogers, age 24, are found in the census of 1895 in the Household of Peter C. Chanell living in Township 50 N, RAnge 24 W., Aitkin County. This appears to be in the Sandy Lake area, but I don’t have any precise information to locate this area. A total of 18 people are listed in this household and so perhaps it is a lumber camp. There is also an Edward Jude, age 18 listed. 1895 appears to have been two years before Edward Rogers enrolled at Carlisle Indian school, and so perhaps both he and Louise were working in one of their father’s lumber camps. I hope this will be of interest. The information is on the Internet should you wish to check the information above. Good Luck in your research. Another death of a member of Mary’s Snetsinger family was that of Mae Sather, born 1892, died 21 July, 1921, age 29. David

  4. Anne Jones Taylor Says:

    Tom my Grandfather ed rogers coached at UOM & my mother told me papa gave / helped him pick ??? The name Jim Thorpe I don’t know papa & my mom were close ,,,,, Indians with native names may of had a hard time I know they called papa a red apple .

    • tombenjey Says:

      Jim Thorpe’s father’s name was Hiram Thorpe. The name selecting happened mostly at an earlier time before there was so much intermarrying with whites. Oftentimes, but not always, selected names consisted of Christian first names and anglicized versions of Indian names for family names. Lucy Pretty Eagle might be an example of a selected name.

      • David & Iris Rogers Says:

        Good Evening:

        Thank you for writing – I enjoy hearing from cousins.

        I have collected a few pages of information about Mary and her family. I’d be pleased to send

        These to you if you are interested. The information isn’t summarized and so is too long, I think, to put

        On a weblog, but you might find it of interest. Do you have an e-mail address apart from the Weblog?

        One of the bits of information I have found is that Mary had eleven children. This is part of data

        Collected in one of the census reports.

        All of the information I have found is from the Internet and from newspaper sources. My grand-

        Father, who lived in Aitkin, MN from about 1882-1889, wasn’t asked any questions about his brothers and

        Sisters in Minnesota and so we really don’t have any personal background on William Rogers & his life in

        Minnesota. If only these questions had been asked and the answers been written down.

        I also have some information on Louise, Ed Rogers’ sister, if this would be of interest. I have a few

        pictures that I’d be glad to send you, including one of Mary’s tombstone.

        Thanks for writing. Sincerely, David Rogers.

      • tombenjey Says:

        If you want to send anything to me just email me at Tom@Tuxedo-Press.com. Thanks for writing.

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